Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Shirin Ebadi talks             about poverty, legal empowerment and what it             takes to change the world. 

    Ms. Ebadi was the first female judge in Iran in the       1970s. With the onset of the Islamic Revolution in       1979, such positions were deemed inappropriate         for women and she was demoted to a clerk. In             2003, she became the first Iranian and the first Muslim woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize for her work in promoting human rights. She is credited with being a driving force behind the reform of divorce and inheritance laws in Iran. Today, she heads the Association for Support of Children's Rights in Iran, which has some 5000 members.

Ms. Ebadi and her translator, Shirin Ershadi, sat down for an interview at the UN Headquarters in New York during Legal Empowerment’s Third Commission Meeting.

Q. What drew you to the Commission on Legal Empowerment of the Poor? Why did you become a Commissioner?

SE: I first heard about the Commission through Norway. They asked me to join and I came on board because I believe in the goals of the Commission. I have worked on the issue of fighting poverty for the last 30 years. I run a non-government organization for children who live on the street. My approach to poverty is from the perspective of human rights. It is a human right for a person to benefit from welfare. There are other people on the Commission who approach the issue from other perspectives, other angles.  It makes for very interesting discussions.  The political arena should be open to so many diverse interests and views.    

I have really enjoyed the discussions here at the Commission meeting.  I benefit from them.  What will be important in the long run is the process - how the reforms are implemented. There are many good ideas that work on paper, but not in practice.  I am especially interested in the regional comparisons.  There are immense disparities between the rich and the poor. Poverty in one country can adversely impact the economy of another.  I am a strong proponent of the Millennium Development Goals, which include eradicating extreme poverty, securing primary education for children, improving the status of women and protecting the environment.

 

Q. With all the problems in the world today, why is legal empowerment important? What is the link between poverty and legal empowerment?

SE: Any violation of the right to housing, or to healthcare, education or food is a human rights violation. Using the resources within a country is a human right. The poor who live in countries that have dictatorships are at an extreme disadvantage because these resources are used to enhance the conditions of elite groups. In such societies, people are often born into debt.

 Women and children are the first victims of extreme poverty. They also face discrimination in law and in practice in many countries in the world. Fighting poverty and the law work together. But we also need the tools and mechanism necessary to implement laws effectively. Without the correct systems in place, many laws fail in practice.

 

Q. How do you convince high level policymakers to implement the reforms that the Commission proposes? 

 SE: There are two types of governments. First, there are the democrats who will work for the good of the people. They may not have the exact answers, but they know how to fight poverty and are dedicated to finding solutions. Those types of leaders will be open to the Commission’s recommendations. The other type of government does not make poverty a priority and seek other benefits.

 We have to hold leaders accountable for the poverty within their countries.  Leaders who come to power and rule without giving a voice to its citizens, cannot enact sustainable development policies.  

Q. We’ve talked about advocacy at the high level. This Commission is also focused on creating demand for change at the grassroots level. How do you convince people that the work of this Commission will help them?

SE: Education is very important. People have to know that benefiting from welfare is a vested right. People have to know that using resources within a country is a vested right. It is spelled out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

People have to question their governments and the decisions their leaders make. Why do the military budgets in most countries exceed the health and education budgets combined? If people want to free themselves from the cycle of terror and war that plagued the 20th century, there is no other way than by putting into practice every human right for all mankind, irrespective of race, gender, nationality or faith.  If enough people want change, it will happen. But they cannot just expect it to happen. They must be active in their own futures.